# Varieties of non-distributive lattice [was: 'Closed over relations'; another possibly-quiz [was: Uniqueness of R00]]

**1**2

Quote from AntC on October 4, 2019, 7:00 amI've been plugging away at trying to find some way to uniquely define

`R00`

(i.e. the equivalent of`DUM`

within an algebraisation of Relational Lattice). No success I can report. I'm reluctant to turn to the following, because I'm well out of my depth, but ...

- A non-distributive lattice that contains only M
_{3}sublattices is called 'modular', and there are varieties of those (wiki, more wiki), with a nice short formula to characterise them.- But Relational Lattices do not contain M
_{3}models; they do contain N_{5}models. More properly we should say contain N_{j}models where_{j}≥ 5. Is there a name for this variety of non-distributivity? Is there any short formula to characterise them? Has anybody explored the varieties of them?From the wikis, this has something to do with complementation(?) We can easily define a conventional lattice complement within Relational Lattices:

x v x' = R01. x ^ x' = R10.(Sorry to use postfix

`'`

for complement there, because that's different to Vadim's use of the operator. Prover9 is very limited for unary operators. I think it's justified because McCune uses postfix`'`

for complement.)The complement is not in general unique, but we can say:

- The
headingof the complement is uniquely fixed.- If
`x`

is non-empty, the complement is uniquely fixed, and is empty.- If
`x`

is empty, it's complement is not unique (it must be non-empty, but the choice of content is arbitrary), but- we can say the double-complement
`(x')'`

is fixed and is identity.- (Seeing as we can define
`x`

is empty using`R00`

I've been round the houses exploring whether combining`R00`

with complement fixes`R00`

, but to no avail.)I think we can say more about N

_{j}sublattices (looking at Pic 11 on the wiki):

- If the top of the sublattice is
`R01`

(i.e. top of the whole lattice, i.e.`DEE`

):- Then piggy-in-the-middle of the left side (of 2 intervals from top to sub-lattice bottom: labelled
`1 - a - 0`

in Pic 11) must be`R00`

(labelled`a`

)- And in the more-than-2 intervals right side (labelled
`1 - c - b - 0`

), the elements other than`1`

must all have the same heading, with the uppermost of those (`c`

) having the maximum content for that heading.- The bottom of the sublattice (
`0`

i.e.`a ^ c`

) must be the empty relation with that heading.Does this give us a way to fix

`R00`

? I'm asking because I'm not sure my reasoning is correct; and because I've very little idea how to go about building a definition.I can think of some counter-examples:

- In the (degenerate) 2-element Relational Lattice, which consists of only
`R01`

and`R00`

-- that is,`DEE`

and`DUM`

, there's no N_{j}sublattice. I think that's OK: in that case my definition for`R00`

is adequate.- In the (degenerate) 4-element Relational Lattice, also there's no N
_{j}sublattice. Other than`R01, R00`

it must contain a relation with a single attribute with a single tuple (which we take as`R11`

), and a relation with that same attribute but empty (which we take as`R10`

/ lattice bottom). In this case my attempted definitions for`R00`

can't distinguish it from`R11`

.- More generally, if the lattice contains only relations with a single tuple or empty, there's no N
_{j}sublattice. Although these we could call 'useless' if not actually degenerate, I'm reluctant to exclude them.- BTW if the lattice contains only cardinality 1 or 0 relations, the complement is unique for all relations; therefore the double-complement is identity.
Any thoughts/critique appreciated ...

I've been plugging away at trying to find some way to uniquely define `R00`

(i.e. the equivalent of `DUM`

within an algebraisation of Relational Lattice). No success I can report. I'm reluctant to turn to the following, because I'm well out of my depth, but ...

- A non-distributive lattice that contains only M
_{3}sublattices is called 'modular', and there are varieties of those (wiki, more wiki), with a nice short formula to characterise them. - But Relational Lattices do not contain M
_{3}models; they do contain N_{5}models. More properly we should say contain N_{j}models where_{j}≥ 5. Is there a name for this variety of non-distributivity? Is there any short formula to characterise them? Has anybody explored the varieties of them?

From the wikis, this has something to do with complementation(?) We can easily define a conventional lattice complement within Relational Lattices:

x v x' = R01. x ^ x' = R10.

(Sorry to use postfix `'`

for complement there, because that's different to Vadim's use of the operator. Prover9 is very limited for unary operators. I think it's justified because McCune uses postfix `'`

for complement.)

The complement is not in general unique, but we can say:

- The
*heading*of the complement is uniquely fixed. - If
`x`

is non-empty, the complement is uniquely fixed, and is empty. - If
`x`

is empty, it's complement is not unique (it must be non-empty, but the choice of content is arbitrary), but - we can say the double-complement
`(x')'`

is fixed and is identity. - (Seeing as we can define
`x`

is empty using`R00`

I've been round the houses exploring whether combining`R00`

with complement fixes`R00`

, but to no avail.)

I think we can say more about N_{j} sublattices (looking at Pic 11 on the wiki):

- If the top of the sublattice is
`R01`

(i.e. top of the whole lattice, i.e.`DEE`

): - Then piggy-in-the-middle of the left side (of 2 intervals from top to sub-lattice bottom: labelled
`1 - a - 0`

in Pic 11) must be`R00`

(labelled`a`

) - And in the more-than-2 intervals right side (labelled
`1 - c - b - 0`

), the elements other than`1`

must all have the same heading, with the uppermost of those (`c`

) having the maximum content for that heading. - The bottom of the sublattice (
`0`

i.e.`a ^ c`

) must be the empty relation with that heading.

Does this give us a way to fix `R00`

? I'm asking because I'm not sure my reasoning is correct; and because I've very little idea how to go about building a definition.

I can think of some counter-examples:

- In the (degenerate) 2-element Relational Lattice, which consists of only
`R01`

and`R00`

-- that is,`DEE`

and`DUM`

, there's no N_{j}sublattice. I think that's OK: in that case my definition for`R00`

is adequate. - In the (degenerate) 4-element Relational Lattice, also there's no N
_{j}sublattice. Other than`R01, R00`

it must contain a relation with a single attribute with a single tuple (which we take as`R11`

), and a relation with that same attribute but empty (which we take as`R10`

/ lattice bottom). In this case my attempted definitions for`R00`

can't distinguish it from`R11`

. - More generally, if the lattice contains only relations with a single tuple or empty, there's no N
_{j}sublattice. Although these we could call 'useless' if not actually degenerate, I'm reluctant to exclude them. - BTW if the lattice contains only cardinality 1 or 0 relations, the complement is unique for all relations; therefore the double-complement is identity.

Any thoughts/critique appreciated ...

Quote from Vadim on October 4, 2019, 5:03 pmYour complement operation doesn't seem to be well defined. Given:

`x ^ y = y ^ x.`

`(x ^ y) ^ z = x ^ (y ^ z).`

`x ^ (x v y) = x.`

`x v y = y v x.`

`(x v y) v z = x v (y v z).`

`x v (x ^ y) = x.`

`x ^ (y v z) = (x ^ (z v (R00 ^ y))) v (x ^ (y v (R00 ^ z))).`

`(x ^ y) v (x ^ z) = x ^ ( ((x v z) ^ y) v ((x v y) ^ z) ).`

`(R00 ^ (x ^ (y v z))) v (y ^ z) = ((R00 ^ (x ^ y)) v z) ^ ((R00 ^ (x ^ z)) v y).`

`x v x' = R01.`

`x ^ x' = R10.`

`x ^ R10 = R10.`

`x v R01 = R01.`

`x''=x.`

then it follows

`x ^ (y v z) = (x ^ y) v (x ^ z).`

To progress little more, it is tempting to interpret your complement in terms of tuple complement and header complement that I used before. To straighten up terminology and prevent notation confusion for the rest of the message here is the 3 complement-like operations defined in Prover9:

Tuple complement (ordinary quote which doesn't actually require any additional annotation in Prover9):

`op(300, postfix, "'" ).`

Header complement (backquote):

`op(300, postfix, "`" ).`

Anthony's complement:

`op(300, postfix, "~" ).`

I tried interpreting Anthony's complement via the prior 2:

`x~ = x'`.`

The first identity

`x v x~ = R00'.`

is a theorem in the axiom system that I will exhibit shortly. The second one

`x ^ x~ = R11'.`

is not.

The axiom system used (+standard lattice axioms):

`x' ^ x = x ^ R00.`

`x' v x = x v R11.`

`x` ^ x = R11 ^ x.`

`x` v x = R00 v x.`

`x = (x ^ y') v (x ^ y`). % generalized FDI (decomposition of relation into header and content)`

`x ^ (y' ^ z')' = ((x ^ y)' ^ (x ^ z)')'. % distributivity of <OR> over join`

`(y` ^ x') v (y' ^ x `) = (y' v x') ^ (y` v x `). % generalized De Morgan's law`

Your complement operation doesn't seem to be well defined. Given:

`x ^ y = y ^ x.`

`(x ^ y) ^ z = x ^ (y ^ z).`

`x ^ (x v y) = x.`

`x v y = y v x.`

`(x v y) v z = x v (y v z).`

`x v (x ^ y) = x.`

`x ^ (y v z) = (x ^ (z v (R00 ^ y))) v (x ^ (y v (R00 ^ z))).`

`(x ^ y) v (x ^ z) = x ^ ( ((x v z) ^ y) v ((x v y) ^ z) ).`

`(R00 ^ (x ^ (y v z))) v (y ^ z) = ((R00 ^ (x ^ y)) v z) ^ ((R00 ^ (x ^ z)) v y).`

`x v x' = R01.`

`x ^ x' = R10.`

`x ^ R10 = R10.`

`x v R01 = R01.`

`x''=x.`

then it follows

`x ^ (y v z) = (x ^ y) v (x ^ z).`

To progress little more, it is tempting to interpret your complement in terms of tuple complement and header complement that I used before. To straighten up terminology and prevent notation confusion for the rest of the message here is the 3 complement-like operations defined in Prover9:

Tuple complement (ordinary quote which doesn't actually require any additional annotation in Prover9):

`op(300, postfix, "'" ).`

Header complement (backquote):

`op(300, postfix, "`" ).`

Anthony's complement:

`op(300, postfix, "~" ).`

I tried interpreting Anthony's complement via the prior 2:

`x~ = x'`.`

The first identity

`x v x~ = R00'.`

is a theorem in the axiom system that I will exhibit shortly. The second one

`x ^ x~ = R11'.`

is not.

The axiom system used (+standard lattice axioms):

`x' ^ x = x ^ R00.`

`x' v x = x v R11.`

`x` ^ x = R11 ^ x.`

`x` v x = R00 v x.`

`x = (x ^ y') v (x ^ y`). % generalized FDI (decomposition of relation into header and content)`

`x ^ (y' ^ z')' = ((x ^ y)' ^ (x ^ z)')'. % distributivity of <OR> over join `

`(y` ^ x') v (y' ^ x `) = (y' v x') ^ (y` v x `). % generalized De Morgan's law `

Quote from AntC on October 4, 2019, 9:00 pmQuote from Vadim on October 4, 2019, 5:03 pmYour complement operation doesn't seem to be well defined.

Vadim, that's the standard definition of complement (just substituting your constants for lattice top, bottom), as per the wiki, as per Wolfram, as per the texts I can find. It is not "Anthony's complement". The standard complement is not in general unique, as I said, as per the wiki, etc.

Given: ...

`x''=x.`

No that does not hold in general. As I said. As the wiki says. It does hold for Relational Lattices if

`x`

is empty (or if`x = R10`

, or some other circumstances which are unrealistic for Relational Lattices).then it follows

`x ^ (y v z) = (x ^ y) v (x ^ z).`

Yes, that's what brings the connection between complement and distributivity. But we know Relational Lattices are not distributive, so we don't expect double-complement to be identity in general.

I ignored the rest of your message.

Quote from Vadim on October 4, 2019, 5:03 pmYour complement operation doesn't seem to be well defined.

Vadim, that's the standard definition of complement (just substituting your constants for lattice top, bottom), as per the wiki, as per Wolfram, as per the texts I can find. It is not "Anthony's complement". The standard complement is not in general unique, as I said, as per the wiki, etc.

Given: ...

`x''=x.`

No that does not hold in general. As I said. As the wiki says. It does hold for Relational Lattices if `x`

is empty (or if `x = R10`

, or some other circumstances which are unrealistic for Relational Lattices).

then it follows

`x ^ (y v z) = (x ^ y) v (x ^ z).`

Yes, that's what brings the connection between complement and distributivity. But we know Relational Lattices are not distributive, so we don't expect double-complement to be identity in general.

I ignored the rest of your message.

Quote from Vadim on October 6, 2019, 7:11 pmYour new operation -

complementation- can be fully expressed in terms of tuple negation, and attribute inversion, and therefore,iswell defined:

`x~ = x`'.`

Note, that in this, corrected version, the operation of tuple negation is applied

afterattribute inversion, which apparently makes a difference. Please also note, that there is no ambiguity in how this version of complementation is defined.Now, both identities from your first message

`x v x~ = R00'.`

and

`x ^ x~ = R11'.`

are theorems in my system.

Here are some laws that complemetation complies; the weaker form of double negation:

`x~~~=x~.`

De Morgan's identity

`x~ ^ y~ = (x v y)~.`

seems to be valid. "Seems to be", because I validated it only in QBQL. Prover9 still spins for the proof, while Mace4 is currently at the model check of domain size 29...

The dual form of De Morgan

`x~ v y~ = (x ^ y)~.`

is invalid.

Here is another duality identity that seems to be valid:

`(y~ ^ x) v (y ^ x~) = (y v x) ^ (y~ v x~).`

And weakened distributivity:

`x ^ (y~ v z~) = (x ^ y~) v (x ^ z~).`

`x~ v (y ^ z~) = (x~ v y) ^ (x~ v z~).`

Unfortunately if we combine all those findings into the axiom system with (^,v,~,R01) signature, it is still insufficiently powerful to prove

`(x ^ y) v (x ^ z) = x ^ ( ((x v z) ^ y) v ((x v y) ^ z) ).`

And, finally, to get back to your original question, I have no clue how to define R00 in this system.

Your new operation - *complementation* - can be fully expressed in terms of tuple negation, and attribute inversion, and therefore, *is *well defined:

`x~ = x`'.`

Note, that in this, corrected version, the operation of tuple negation is applied *after *attribute inversion, which apparently makes a difference. Please also note, that there is no ambiguity in how this version of complementation is defined.

Now, both identities from your first message

`x v x~ = R00'.`

and

`x ^ x~ = R11'.`

are theorems in my system.

Here are some laws that complemetation complies; the weaker form of double negation:

`x~~~=x~.`

De Morgan's identity

`x~ ^ y~ = (x v y)~.`

seems to be valid. "Seems to be", because I validated it only in QBQL. Prover9 still spins for the proof, while Mace4 is currently at the model check of domain size 29...

The dual form of De Morgan

`x~ v y~ = (x ^ y)~.`

is invalid.

Here is another duality identity that seems to be valid:

`(y~ ^ x) v (y ^ x~) = (y v x) ^ (y~ v x~).`

And weakened distributivity:

`x ^ (y~ v z~) = (x ^ y~) v (x ^ z~).`

`x~ v (y ^ z~) = (x~ v y) ^ (x~ v z~).`

Unfortunately if we combine all those findings into the axiom system with (^,v,~,R01) signature, it is still insufficiently powerful to prove

`(x ^ y) v (x ^ z) = x ^ ( ((x v z) ^ y) v ((x v y) ^ z) ).`

And, finally, to get back to your original question, I have no clue how to define R00 in this system.

Quote from AntC on October 8, 2019, 2:17 amQuote from Vadim on October 6, 2019, 7:11 pmYour new operation -

complementation-The wiki citation is to Birkhoff 1961. Complementation is neither "new" nor is it "Anthony's".

can be fully expressed in terms of tuple negation, and attribute inversion, and therefore,

iswell defined:

`x~ = x`'.`

Just remind me of your definitions for those operations. IIRC neither of them is well defined and/or they rely on

`R00`

-- which is what I'm trying to fix uniquely. You are not helping.... I validated it only in QBQL.

As if this wasn't clear already: lattice complement is from the algebraisation for lattices. It's not an operator that makes sense in the implementation of relations/therefore no sense in QBQL nor Appendix A..

Prover9 still spins for the proof, while Mace4 is currently at the model check of domain size 29...

Of course. because your negation and inversion operators are not well defined algebraically.

`...`

And, finally, to get back to your original question, I have no clue how to define R00 in this system.

That's obvious. If you stop the sidetracking, my suggestion is in the first post on this thread. But I'm very unsure how to express it algebraically. I want to start with

I think we can say more about N

_{j}sublattices (looking at Pic 11 on the wiki):

- If the top of the sublattice is
`R01`

(i.e. top of the whole lattice, i.e.`DEE`

):I want to express: given elements

`x, y`

_{j}that are interval 1 from`R01`

, if

`x NatJoin y`

_{j}is interval 1 from`x`

but that`NatJoin`

is at interval >1 from

`y`

_{j},`x = R00`

.

Addit:Going by the wiki definition of 'lattice cover', I'm looking for:

`R01`

is cover for

`x, y`

_{j},`x`

is a cover for

`x NatJoin y`

_{j},

`y`

_{j}`> (x NatJoin yj)`

, but y_{j}not a cover for the`NatJoin`

.

Quote from Vadim on October 6, 2019, 7:11 pmYour new operation -

complementation-

The wiki citation is to Birkhoff 1961. Complementation is neither "new" nor is it "Anthony's".

can be fully expressed in terms of tuple negation, and attribute inversion, and therefore,

iswell defined:

`x~ = x`'.`

Just remind me of your definitions for those operations. IIRC neither of them is well defined and/or they rely on `R00`

-- which is what I'm trying to fix uniquely. You are not helping.

... I validated it only in QBQL.

As if this wasn't clear already: lattice complement is from the algebraisation for lattices. It's not an operator that makes sense in the implementation of relations/therefore no sense in QBQL nor Appendix A..

Prover9 still spins for the proof, while Mace4 is currently at the model check of domain size 29...

Of course. because your negation and inversion operators are not well defined algebraically.

`...`

That's obvious. If you stop the sidetracking, my suggestion is in the first post on this thread. But I'm very unsure how to express it algebraically. I want to start with

I think we can say more about N

_{j}sublattices (looking at Pic 11 on the wiki):

- If the top of the sublattice is
`R01`

(i.e. top of the whole lattice, i.e.`DEE`

):

I want to express: given elements `x, y`

_{j} that are interval 1 from `R01`

, if `x NatJoin y`

_{j} is interval 1 from `x`

but that `NatJoin`

is at interval >1 from `y`

_{j}, `x = R00`

.

**Addit:**

Going by the wiki definition of 'lattice cover', I'm looking for: `R01`

is cover for `x, y`

_{j}, `x`

is a cover for `x NatJoin y`

_{j}, `y`

_{j}` > (x NatJoin yj)`

, but y_{j} not a cover for the `NatJoin`

.

Quote from Vadim on October 8, 2019, 10:41 pmI doubt the complementation operator that you recruited in this thread can be defined in "more legitimate" fashion than the tuple complement.

I doubt the complementation operator that you recruited in this thread can be defined in "more legitimate" fashion than the tuple complement.

Quote from AntC on October 11, 2019, 5:33 amI'd rather 'stand on the shoulders of giants' (Birkhoff, McCune, Padmanabhan, even Dedekind) and draw from their findings than go in for 'Original Research', as wikipedia moderators call it.Quote from Vadim on October 8, 2019, 10:41 pmI doubt the complementation operator that you recruited in this thread can be defined in "more legitimate" fashion than the tuple complement.

I doubt that those great brains would have developed a less-than "legitimate" operation. I think lattice complement is more general than what you're presenting. I think your 'tuple complement' (and 'header complement') can be defined in terms of lattice complement. And that usefully connects it to a well-established and well-researched body of work. Consider ...

- Relational Lattices are in general not distributive. But we know there are sub-lattices embedded that are distributive. Therefore lattice complement
within those sub-latticesis well defined, is unique, and its double-complement is identity.- Take some relation/element of a Relational Lattice
`x`

. We know all the relations with the same heading form a distributive sub-lattice: essentially the elements are the powerset of all possible tuples for that heading. The sub-lattice's top is`x v R11`

, its bottom is`x ^ R00`

. We define tuple complement as the lattice complement within that sub-lattice:x v tcompl(x) = x v R11. x ^ tcompl(x) = x ^ R00. tcompl(x) ^ R00 = x ^ R00. % should be inferred from above definitions.(I've used a new name

`tcompl`

to avoid confusion with Vadim's operator. I think it's unnecessary to say`tcompl(x)`

has same heading as`x`

.)

- We know all headings (that is, all empty relations taken as representing their headings) form a distibutive sub-lattice: essentially the elements are the powerset of all attributes appearing in the lattice. The sub-lattice's top is
`R00`

, its bottom is`R10`

. We define heading complement as the lattice complement of the heading of`x`

within that sub-lattice:(x ^ R00) v hcompl(x ^ R00) = R00. (x ^ R00) ^ hcompl(x ^ R00) = R10.

- There's a further, distributive sub-lattice comprising (rather scarily) domain-dependent relations: their headings are the same as the headings for the empty relations; therefore they form a distributive sub-lattice, as the powerset of all attributes; each one's content is all possible tuples for each heading. The sub-lattice's top is
`R01`

, its bottom is`R11`

. We define full-heading complement as the lattice complement of the filled-up`x`

within that sub-lattice:(x v R11) v fhcompl(x v R11) = R01. (x v R11) ^ fhcompl(x v R11) = R11. hcompl(x) = fhcompl(x) ^ R00. % should be inferred.I can't avoid using

`R11`

in these definitions; the domain-dependence worries me. I can at least define`R11`

in terms of less-scary elements: the heading of`R11`

is the same as the heading of lattice bottom;`R11`

has the maximum content for that heading; IOWR11 ^ R00 = R10. z ^ R00 = R10 <-> R11 ^ z = z.To think of this geometrically, we have the four 'cardinal points' of a Relational Lattice:

- Top aka
`R01`

aka`DEE`

aka North;- Bottom aka
`R10`

(aka`DUMPTY`

by my invention) aka South;- Left aka
`R00`

aka`DUM`

(we wish) aka West;- Right aka
`R11`

(aka`FULL`

?) aka East.- The North-West face is a (trivial, two-element
`DEE-DUM`

) distributive lattice;- The South-West face (all the empty relations) is a distributive lattice;
- The North-East face (all maximal relations) is a distributive lattice;
- The South-East face (all possible relations with all possible attributes) is a distributive lattice;
- Each 'slice' on a NE-SW 'slant' (all relations for a given heading) forms an internal face that's a distributive lattice.
So we remain with the only persistent problem: how to define

`R00`

uniquely? (We get lattice top and bottom/`R01, R10`

'for free' as the identity element and absorbing element respectively of lattice meet`^`

aka`NaturalJoin`

.)

Quote from Vadim on October 8, 2019, 10:41 pm

I doubt that those great brains would have developed a less-than "legitimate" operation. I think lattice complement is more general than what you're presenting. I think your 'tuple complement' (and 'header complement') can be defined in terms of lattice complement. And that usefully connects it to a well-established and well-researched body of work. Consider ...

- Relational Lattices are in general not distributive. But we know there are sub-lattices embedded that are distributive. Therefore lattice complement
*within those sub-lattices*is well defined, is unique, and its double-complement is identity. - Take some relation/element of a Relational Lattice
`x`

. We know all the relations with the same heading form a distributive sub-lattice: essentially the elements are the powerset of all possible tuples for that heading. The sub-lattice's top is`x v R11`

, its bottom is`x ^ R00`

. We define tuple complement as the lattice complement within that sub-lattice:

x v tcompl(x) = x v R11. x ^ tcompl(x) = x ^ R00. tcompl(x) ^ R00 = x ^ R00. % should be inferred from above definitions.

(I've used a new name `tcompl`

to avoid confusion with Vadim's operator. I think it's unnecessary to say `tcompl(x)`

has same heading as `x`

.)

- We know all headings (that is, all empty relations taken as representing their headings) form a distibutive sub-lattice: essentially the elements are the powerset of all attributes appearing in the lattice. The sub-lattice's top is
`R00`

, its bottom is`R10`

. We define heading complement as the lattice complement of the heading of`x`

within that sub-lattice:

(x ^ R00) v hcompl(x ^ R00) = R00. (x ^ R00) ^ hcompl(x ^ R00) = R10.

- There's a further, distributive sub-lattice comprising (rather scarily) domain-dependent relations: their headings are the same as the headings for the empty relations; therefore they form a distributive sub-lattice, as the powerset of all attributes; each one's content is all possible tuples for each heading. The sub-lattice's top is
`R01`

, its bottom is`R11`

. We define full-heading complement as the lattice complement of the filled-up`x`

within that sub-lattice:

(x v R11) v fhcompl(x v R11) = R01. (x v R11) ^ fhcompl(x v R11) = R11. hcompl(x) = fhcompl(x) ^ R00. % should be inferred.

I can't avoid using `R11`

in these definitions; the domain-dependence worries me. I can at least define `R11`

in terms of less-scary elements: the heading of `R11`

is the same as the heading of lattice bottom; `R11`

has the maximum content for that heading; IOW

R11 ^ R00 = R10. z ^ R00 = R10 <-> R11 ^ z = z.

To think of this geometrically, we have the four 'cardinal points' of a Relational Lattice:

- Top aka
`R01`

aka`DEE`

aka North; - Bottom aka
`R10`

(aka`DUMPTY`

by my invention) aka South; - Left aka
`R00`

aka`DUM`

(we wish) aka West; - Right aka
`R11`

(aka`FULL`

?) aka East. - The North-West face is a (trivial, two-element
`DEE-DUM`

) distributive lattice; - The South-West face (all the empty relations) is a distributive lattice;
- The North-East face (all maximal relations) is a distributive lattice;
- The South-East face (all possible relations with all possible attributes) is a distributive lattice;
- Each 'slice' on a NE-SW 'slant' (all relations for a given heading) forms an internal face that's a distributive lattice.

So we remain with the only persistent problem: how to define `R00`

uniquely? (We get lattice top and bottom/`R01, R10`

'for free' as the identity element and absorbing element respectively of lattice meet `^`

aka `NaturalJoin`

.)

Quote from Vadim on October 11, 2019, 5:13 pmQuote from AntC on October 11, 2019, 5:33 am

- Relational Lattices are in general not distributive. But we know there are sub-lattices embedded that are distributive. Therefore lattice complement
within those sub-latticesis well defined, is unique, and its double-complement is identity.Yes, but the two unary operations that I'm promoting have the same property. Even more, tuple complement obeys double complement law over the entire lattice (not just some distributive sublattices).

- Take some relation/element of a Relational Lattice
`x`

. We know all the relations with the same heading form a distributive sub-lattice: essentially the elements are the powerset of all possible tuples for that heading. The sub-lattice's top is`x v R11`

, its bottom is`x ^ R00`

. We define tuple complement as the lattice complement within that sub-lattice:x v tcompl(x) = x v R11. x ^ tcompl(x) = x ^ R00. tcompl(x) ^ R00 = x ^ R00. % should be inferred from above definitions.(I've used a new name

`tcompl`

to avoid confusion with Vadim's operator. I think it's unnecessary to say`tcompl(x)`

has same heading as`x`

.)As you are using the same two axioms that I use, then I fail to see any difference.

- We know all headings (that is, all empty relations taken as representing their headings) form a distibutive sub-lattice: essentially the elements are the powerset of all attributes appearing in the lattice. The sub-lattice's top is
`R00`

, its bottom is`R10`

. We define heading complement as the lattice complement of the heading of`x`

within that sub-lattice:(x ^ R00) v hcompl(x ^ R00) = R00. (x ^ R00) ^ hcompl(x ^ R00) = R10.This operation is the inversion -- postfix back quote in in the

`(^,v,',`)`

axiom system that I posted couple messages back. Both identities are theorems.

- There's a further, distributive sub-lattice comprising (rather scarily) domain-dependent relations: their headings are the same as the headings for the empty relations; therefore they form a distributive sub-lattice, as the powerset of all attributes; each one's content is all possible tuples for each heading. The sub-lattice's top is
`R01`

, its bottom is`R11`

. We define full-heading complement as the lattice complement of the filled-up`x`

within that sub-lattice:(x v R11) v fhcompl(x v R11) = R01. (x v R11) ^ fhcompl(x v R11) = R11. hcompl(x) = fhcompl(x) ^ R00. % should be inferred.This is inversion as well.

I can't avoid using

`R11`

in these definitions; the domain-dependence worries me. I can at least define`R11`

in terms of less-scary elements: the heading of`R11`

is the same as the heading of lattice bottom;`R11`

has the maximum content for that heading; IOWR11 ^ R00 = R10. z ^ R00 = R10 <-> R11 ^ z = z.To think of this geometrically, we have the four 'cardinal points' of a Relational Lattice:

- Top aka
`R01`

aka`DEE`

aka North;- Bottom aka
`R10`

(aka`DUMPTY`

by my invention) aka South;- Left aka
`R00`

aka`DUM`

(we wish) aka West;- Right aka
`R11`

(aka`FULL`

?) aka East.- The North-West face is a (trivial, two-element
`DEE-DUM`

) distributive lattice;- The South-West face (all the empty relations) is a distributive lattice;
- The North-East face (all maximal relations) is a distributive lattice;
- The South-East face (all possible relations with all possible attributes) is a distributive lattice;
- Each 'slice' on a NE-SW 'slant' (all relations for a given heading) forms an internal face that's a distributive lattice.
So we remain with the only persistent problem: how to define

`R00`

uniquely? (We get lattice top and bottom/`R01, R10`

'for free' as the identity element and absorbing element respectively of lattice meet`^`

aka`NaturalJoin`

.)The other perspective to your geometric picture would be that there is second lattice structure with

`R11`

as top and`R00`

as bottom. Take Hasse diagram of the original lattice and reorient the edges so that in order for element`S`

to cover`R`

, the header of`R`

should be subset of the header`S`

, and the tuple content of`S`

projected to attributes of`R`

should be superset of the tuple content of`R`

. (In "classic" relational lattice those conditions are the opposite). At the moment I don't know any identities that hold in that lattice (those from Litak & Mikulas & Hidders paper don't carry over).P.S. I tried uploading an image, but after I choose to upload the file nothing happens. Here it is; from another wordpress website:-)

Quote from AntC on October 11, 2019, 5:33 am

- Relational Lattices are in general not distributive. But we know there are sub-lattices embedded that are distributive. Therefore lattice complement
within those sub-latticesis well defined, is unique, and its double-complement is identity.

Yes, but the two unary operations that I'm promoting have the same property. Even more, tuple complement obeys double complement law over the entire lattice (not just some distributive sublattices).

- Take some relation/element of a Relational Lattice
`x`

. We know all the relations with the same heading form a distributive sub-lattice: essentially the elements are the powerset of all possible tuples for that heading. The sub-lattice's top is`x v R11`

, its bottom is`x ^ R00`

. We define tuple complement as the lattice complement within that sub-lattice:`tcompl`

to avoid confusion with Vadim's operator. I think it's unnecessary to say`tcompl(x)`

has same heading as`x`

.)

As you are using the same two axioms that I use, then I fail to see any difference.

- We know all headings (that is, all empty relations taken as representing their headings) form a distibutive sub-lattice: essentially the elements are the powerset of all attributes appearing in the lattice. The sub-lattice's top is
`R00`

, its bottom is`R10`

. We define heading complement as the lattice complement of the heading of`x`

within that sub-lattice:(x ^ R00) v hcompl(x ^ R00) = R00. (x ^ R00) ^ hcompl(x ^ R00) = R10.

This operation is the inversion -- postfix back quote in in the `(^,v,',`)`

axiom system that I posted couple messages back. Both identities are theorems.

- There's a further, distributive sub-lattice comprising (rather scarily) domain-dependent relations: their headings are the same as the headings for the empty relations; therefore they form a distributive sub-lattice, as the powerset of all attributes; each one's content is all possible tuples for each heading. The sub-lattice's top is
`R01`

, its bottom is`R11`

. We define full-heading complement as the lattice complement of the filled-up`x`

within that sub-lattice:

This is inversion as well.

`R11`

in these definitions; the domain-dependence worries me. I can at least define`R11`

in terms of less-scary elements: the heading of`R11`

is the same as the heading of lattice bottom;`R11`

has the maximum content for that heading; IOWR11 ^ R00 = R10. z ^ R00 = R10 <-> R11 ^ z = z.To think of this geometrically, we have the four 'cardinal points' of a Relational Lattice:

- Top aka
`R01`

aka`DEE`

aka North;- Bottom aka
`R10`

(aka`DUMPTY`

by my invention) aka South;- Left aka
`R00`

aka`DUM`

(we wish) aka West;- Right aka
`R11`

(aka`FULL`

?) aka East.- The North-West face is a (trivial, two-element
`DEE-DUM`

) distributive lattice;- The South-West face (all the empty relations) is a distributive lattice;
- The North-East face (all maximal relations) is a distributive lattice;
- The South-East face (all possible relations with all possible attributes) is a distributive lattice;
`R00`

uniquely? (We get lattice top and bottom/`R01, R10`

'for free' as the identity element and absorbing element respectively of lattice meet`^`

aka`NaturalJoin`

.)

The other perspective to your geometric picture would be that there is second lattice structure with `R11`

as top and `R00`

as bottom. Take Hasse diagram of the original lattice and reorient the edges so that in order for element `S`

to cover `R`

, the header of `R`

should be subset of the header `S`

, and the tuple content of `S`

projected to attributes of `R`

should be superset of the tuple content of `R`

. (In "classic" relational lattice those conditions are the opposite). At the moment I don't know any identities that hold in that lattice (those from Litak & Mikulas & Hidders paper don't carry over).

P.S. I tried uploading an image, but after I choose to upload the file nothing happens. Here it is; from another wordpress website:-)

Quote from Dave Voorhis on October 11, 2019, 11:51 pmQuote from Vadim on October 11, 2019, 5:13 pmP.S. I tried uploading an image, but after I choose to upload the file nothing happens.

How did you upload the image?

I just tried it -- via the "Upload Files" mechanism below the message edit box -- and it worked.

Here's an image:

Quote from Vadim on October 11, 2019, 5:13 pmP.S. I tried uploading an image, but after I choose to upload the file nothing happens.

How did you upload the image?

I just tried it -- via the "Upload Files" mechanism below the message edit box -- and it worked.

Here's an image:

**Uploaded files:**

*I'm the forum administrator and lead developer of Rel. Email me at dave@armchair.mb.ca with the Subject 'TTM Forum'. Download Rel from https://reldb.org*

Quote from AntC on October 12, 2019, 7:28 amQuote from Vadim on October 11, 2019, 5:13 pmQuote from AntC on October 11, 2019, 5:33 am

within those sub-latticesis well defined, is unique, and its double-complement is identity.Yes, but the two unary operations that I'm promoting have the same property.

For the umpteenth time, I did not start this thread to 'promote' some operation. What I'm trying to do is build on well-established work, to get insights into the lattice structure, to fix

`R00`

as corresponding to`DUM`

. What you've failed to do with the "operations that I'm promoting" is show how they build on what is already established.

`x`

. We know all the relations with the same heading form a distributive sub-lattice: essentially the elements are the powerset of all possible tuples for that heading. The sub-lattice's top is`x v R11`

, its bottom is`x ^ R00`

. We define tuple complement as the lattice complement within that sub-lattice:`tcompl`

to avoid confusion with Vadim's operator. I think it's unnecessary to say`tcompl(x)`

has same heading as`x`

.)As you are using the same two axioms that I use, then I fail to see any difference.

I'm not saying there is a difference. I am explaining what I'm doing in terms of lattice structures and theory. Merely, I don't know what's the motivation behind what you're doing.

... tuple complement obeys double complement law ...

I'm failing to see how you can make any claims about obeying laws: you've not connected your operations to well-established theory, so we can't get assurance from prior work. Your definitions are in terms of

`R00`

aot, about which you've failed to demonstrate any laws holding.To think of this geometrically, we have the four 'cardinal points' of a Relational Lattice:

- ...
`R00`

uniquely? (We get lattice top and bottom/`R01, R10`

'for free' as the identity element and absorbing element respectively of lattice meet`^`

aka`NaturalJoin`

.)The other perspective to your geometric picture would be that there is second lattice structure with

`R11`

as top and`R00`

as bottom.What lattice theory does that connect to? What insights does it give? How does it help fix

`R00`

in terms of the already well-developed analysis?There are an almost-infinity of lattice structures over the same set of elements (as we discussed in an earlier thread): we can pick almost any two elements as top, bottom; then all we need is to concoct some operations for lattice meet/join. For

`R11`

as top, lattice meet would be Appendix A's`<OR>`

. I don't like using that because it's domain-dependent. For the dual of that, I have no intuition what it does. Contrast that for`R01/DEE`

as lattice top, lattice meet is`NaturalJoin`

, which is a very familiar and intuitive operation, corresponding to FOPL`AND`

of the characteristic predicate for the relation operands. The dual to`NaturalJoin`

as lattice join is`InnerUnion`

, which is not so intuitive, but at least is not domain-dependent, and can be explained in terms of familiar Projection and Codd's/set-theoretic`Union`

.I should add that

`InnerUnion`

is well-established enough to have been discovered/rediscovered several times: it was spelled`UNION`

in ISBL; it's spelled`UNION CORRESPONDING`

in SQL (not that many vendors support it).

Quote from Vadim on October 11, 2019, 5:13 pmQuote from AntC on October 11, 2019, 5:33 am

within those sub-latticesis well defined, is unique, and its double-complement is identity.Yes, but the two unary operations that I'm promoting have the same property.

For the umpteenth time, I did not start this thread to 'promote' some operation. What I'm trying to do is build on well-established work, to get insights into the lattice structure, to fix `R00`

as corresponding to `DUM`

. What you've failed to do with the "operations that I'm promoting" is show how they build on what is already established.

`x`

. We know all the relations with the same heading form a distributive sub-lattice: essentially the elements are the powerset of all possible tuples for that heading. The sub-lattice's top is`x v R11`

, its bottom is`x ^ R00`

. We define tuple complement as the lattice complement within that sub-lattice:`tcompl`

to avoid confusion with Vadim's operator. I think it's unnecessary to say`tcompl(x)`

has same heading as`x`

.)As you are using the same two axioms that I use, then I fail to see any difference.

I'm not saying there is a difference. I am explaining what I'm doing in terms of lattice structures and theory. Merely, I don't know what's the motivation behind what you're doing.

... tuple complement obeys double complement law ...

I'm failing to see how you can make any claims about obeying laws: you've not connected your operations to well-established theory, so we can't get assurance from prior work. Your definitions are in terms of `R00`

aot, about which you've failed to demonstrate any laws holding.

To think of this geometrically, we have the four 'cardinal points' of a Relational Lattice:

- ...
`R00`

uniquely? (We get lattice top and bottom/`R01, R10`

'for free' as the identity element and absorbing element respectively of lattice meet`^`

aka`NaturalJoin`

.)The other perspective to your geometric picture would be that there is second lattice structure with

`R11`

as top and`R00`

as bottom.

What lattice theory does that connect to? What insights does it give? How does it help fix `R00`

in terms of the already well-developed analysis?

There are an almost-infinity of lattice structures over the same set of elements (as we discussed in an earlier thread): we can pick almost any two elements as top, bottom; then all we need is to concoct some operations for lattice meet/join. For `R11`

as top, lattice meet would be Appendix A's `<OR>`

. I don't like using that because it's domain-dependent. For the dual of that, I have no intuition what it does. Contrast that for `R01/DEE`

as lattice top, lattice meet is `NaturalJoin`

, which is a very familiar and intuitive operation, corresponding to FOPL `AND`

of the characteristic predicate for the relation operands. The dual to `NaturalJoin`

as lattice join is `InnerUnion`

, which is not so intuitive, but at least is not domain-dependent, and can be explained in terms of familiar Projection and Codd's/set-theoretic `Union`

.

I should add that `InnerUnion`

is well-established enough to have been discovered/rediscovered several times: it was spelled `UNION`

in ISBL; it's spelled `UNION CORRESPONDING`

in SQL (not that many vendors support it).

**1**2